Author Topic: Cams and optimal engine configuration  (Read 191 times)

Offline Donkey Hotey

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Cams and optimal engine configuration
« on: September 06, 2019, 11:13:44 pm »
Yes, I have bought again. This time it’s 1940. This one is very different than my other five. I admit I didn’t test ride this one until trailering it 1,200 miles away.

When I finally got it out of Cody, Wyoming and grabbed a handful of throttle, I was immediately blown away at the power. It runs very clean and smooth down at 2,000 RPM and builds power all the way to redline. It’s doing this through the 3” K&N filter and stock mufflers.

I want to be clear: I’m not a guy who would want a cruiser with top end at the expense of low and midrange running. This engine is pure magic. This is what these engines should have been. Anyone who rode this side by side with a stocker would prefer this tune. It’s quiet. It’s smooth. It’s fast. There are no preferences to weigh in here: it’s better everywhere.

Now my question: how do we establish what was done to this bike and duplicate it? Does this sound strictly like H5 cams? I don’t know if it has them but it’s my only guess at this point. I have no personal experience with those cams so I don’t know. I can’t imagine ecu tune could make this big of a difference. Any other ideas?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 11:15:43 pm by Donkey Hotey »
Greg
1525 since 2000 (Molly)
1989 since 2012 (Jennie)
0333 since 2015 (Beulah)
1663 since 2017 (Deadwood)
0738 since 2018 (Babe)
1940 since 2019 (Sinclair)

Offline wytfut

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Re: Cams and optimal engine configuration
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2019, 07:15:17 am »
Nice!!

Sounds like H5s to me.
We put them in Blue. Night and day difference.
I'm not a true hot rodder either, but if I could find another set reasonably priced .... I'd do it.

Blue pulls hard all the way to red line.

I must admit though I've heard others with H5 cams saying they didn't notice much difference. After ours I can't figure out how/why...

Sounds like a good one Greg!!
Bruce
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Offline Donkey Hotey

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Re: Cams and optimal engine configuration
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2019, 08:03:44 am »
I wish I had known this years ago. In my opinion every one of them should be equipped this way. My first thoughts cruising around Cody was how smooth it was at low rpm. It just runs beautifully and pulls clean at very low rpm. My bikes have a range of tunes and I know they need to be updated to be sure they’re on the latest. I figured this just had one of the good tunes.

It wasn’t until maybe 20-30 miles later that I finally went to pass a car on Chief Joseph Scenic Byway that it caught me. I left plenty of room for the pass and knew altitude was also going to affect the power. I opened the throttle and the bike positively lunged forward. When I expected it to run out of steam, it kept pulling so I let it go. I was around that car like it was nothing, on a steep grade, at altitude. “WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?!?” I blurted in my helmet.

I got into the throttle more on subsequent curves and I realized how different it was. This is how I would expect a four valve, double overhead cam engine to run. Just wow!

It also returned 45 MPG in the mountains and I wasn’t taking it easy. Like I said: pure magic.

Do you remember what Jim was selling the cams for back in the day?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 08:07:21 am by Donkey Hotey »
Greg
1525 since 2000 (Molly)
1989 since 2012 (Jennie)
0333 since 2015 (Beulah)
1663 since 2017 (Deadwood)
0738 since 2018 (Babe)
1940 since 2019 (Sinclair)

Offline wytfut

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Re: Cams and optimal engine configuration
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2019, 12:09:39 pm »
 Was trying to remember...
Believe it was 425$...   
Last set I saw sell this past winter on eBay (Jim must have found a spare pair laying around?)....  Went for I believe 1300$.

I wasn't paying as close to attention back in the day as I do now..
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 12:37:17 pm by wytfut »
Bruce
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Offline Donkey Hotey

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Re: Cams and optimal engine configuration
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2019, 02:28:08 pm »
Yeah, that set  last winter went for <cough> $1,525 <cough>. I remember because it matches the serial number of my first. They’re under two domes of bulletproof polycarbonate and displayed in my foyer for all visitors to marvel at.

They were obviously ground from E-H cast blanks. I suppose getting those blanks ain’t gonna happen again. I need to see if I have Jim’s email address...
Greg
1525 since 2000 (Molly)
1989 since 2012 (Jennie)
0333 since 2015 (Beulah)
1663 since 2017 (Deadwood)
0738 since 2018 (Babe)
1940 since 2019 (Sinclair)

Offline blackheart

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Re: Cams and optimal engine configuration
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2019, 07:12:16 am »
I can tell you the stock cams have very odd timing events.  I'm finally back to putting together my engine which this time is the "new" parted out #204.  I will mock up a degree wheel and post timing.  I recall the intake opens at a pathetically late time and closes late which might make one think it should have good top end but the opening point is so late one could almost advance it one tooth on the last driven gear.  I was comparing to my Victory stock cams and Vic Andrews V438 cams as well as some Vrod cams (Vrod obviously being a larger cam).

Total duration at 050 bucket lift was around 200, which is what you'd expect but had negative overlap.  I would like to play with moving the events but then the tune would have to change and I can't change it.

Andrews would grind any cam you want but they will be expensive.
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Offline brixtonanimal

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Re: Cams and optimal engine configuration
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2019, 10:48:37 am »
This sounds incredible, i wish someone would manufacture these again

Offline blackheart

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Re: Cams and optimal engine configuration
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2019, 10:18:45 pm »
I did get the 204 engine assy together and stuck into 307 bike.  At the end of the day upon alignment of the timing Mark's per what seems normal which results in perfect alignment of the marks between the top idler shaft mark and head casting mark I found the timing events very similar to the last time with intake c/l around 117 degrees and exhaust c/l around 97.  I advanced cam timing about 10 degrees and both cams are around 107.  I am surprised  but it seems to run great without acting lean at the bottom.  Does anyone know the H5 cams intended installed c/l and timing figures?  I will get mine tabulated and post.

Anyway it's good to ride it again.
S/N 0307, 14th X assembled factory demonstrator

Offline Donkey Hotey

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Re: Cams and optimal engine configuration
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2019, 09:41:04 pm »
Sorry, I am fairly new to cam timing and notations. I understand measuring at 0.050" lift and all that. You said about 200 degrees of duration which is in crank degrees. The two centerline numbers you quoted of 117 and 97 are crankshaft degrees before and after TDC?
Greg
1525 since 2000 (Molly)
1989 since 2012 (Jennie)
0333 since 2015 (Beulah)
1663 since 2017 (Deadwood)
0738 since 2018 (Babe)
1940 since 2019 (Sinclair)